Curse

mtxed · Jun 09, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Im not a WOW-fan or WOW-player, but it Looks like their Battlegrounds patch has some CTF in it too.. soon they will have all the GW elements in it and GW will be

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds.html

ManadartheHealer · Jun 09, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Shows how good Guild Wars is

Kishin · Jun 09, 2005, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtxed

Im not a WOW-fan or WOW-player, but it Looks like their Battlegrounds patch has some CTF in it too.. soon they will have all the GW elements in it and GW will be

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds.html

Except our skill system will still be better. WoW players can pretty much hotkey as many damn abilities as they please in their skillbar. No decision making there, no tactical builds. Just throw down everything you have and its right at your fingertips.

GW requires a bit more sense than that.

Although, i'll give the devil his due, Battlegrounds looks like a neat system, with potential for high and low levels alike.

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Apparently if you play as Alliance (which over half their playerbase does) you get to wait in a queue for hours just to play. Sounds fan-tastic!

Caco-Cola · Jun 09, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Uhh...

I'd point out that CTF isn't even an original concept.

But I'm sure ya'll already know that, right?

Right??

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 09, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

CTF etc is not a new idea, there are actually very few new ideas.
There have actually been CTF / Assualt etc etc variations for neverwinter nights for over 2 years now. I very much doubt WoW is copying GW. They are just doing what every games designer does, take alook around see what works, if it can can work in the context of their game and implement it.

βlitzkrieg · Jun 09, 2005, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Heh, go WoW...

Xellos · Jun 09, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Yes, but Guild Wars really sucks at making use of it's maps.

As cool as Guild Wars is, admit it, those classic "tactics" and such in FPS and such just doesn't work. When's the last time a team pulled off a successful 3 man gank team or whatever off? I remember SoW doing that in beta, but it doesn't seem to work once they fought the guys higher then them or faced the same team twice.

In Guild Wars, the mindset currently doesn't allow you to be self-reliant, this makes the game concentrate on sticking together. Real close. This makes terrain and such much less fun.

In WoW, as stupid and imbalanced as it is, you can have a infiltrator, a sniper, a whatever, blah blah blah, the list goes on. Because players can sustain themselves. While they aren't invincible, they don't rely on a healer as much as Guild Wars does.

This is why WoW is preferred by some over GW. The fact that you can go "commando" or at least be free roaming, having some leisure to experiment things and have a chance at success is fun for them, more so then learning to stick in a group.

If you want to compare this to something more known, let's look at Warcraft 3 and Starcraft.

In starcraft, you go look at guys like Boxer or Yellow or whatever, you see lots of plays. The gameplay is made so that you can pull off funky strategies, that are out of the blue, a army stuck together is nice, but it has it's drawbacks too. In warcraft 3, you split your army in two without one of the smaller groups being a mass building killer squad, your dead. There is no sandwiching in 1v1 unlike starcraft, there is no ambushing. You won't see top players hiding a platoon of archers in the shadows at a fork, because they'd rather have them with their main army.

It's just how the feeling of games go. GW has a Wc3ish feel, where your little platoon or squad runs around together, and stays together. Like mario jumping forward into new lands. The emphasize is on mario, not the landscape. WoW and Starcraft has a more worldly feel, one that makes you feel that the terrain and such gives more advantages, and feels more real, though WOW might be a bad example in some cases, since they have homing arrows and such. The fact that they can even allow battle ground strategies to resemble CTF games and not just group up and stick together like GW makes it a bit "cooler" then GW in that aspect. In GvG, running flag at ice hall is about the only time when you split up, and that's the runners.

In Gw, the only class that feels really connected with the terrain is probably the ranger. The fact that height gives more damage (Can someone give me the formula for height variable?), how different the bows are, and how the ranger has traps and such, it makes the ranger feel connected to the landscape. Classes like mesmer could care less, since they can cast through walls and such. The fact that you can't jump or anything also subtracts the terrain feel.

All in all, I'd say if you like the WoW type feel thing :P you might want to check out starcraft ghost next year if you don't want p2p.

Ninna · Jun 09, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

GW has a Wc3ish feel, where your little platoon or squad runs around together, and stays together.

Anet has said as much

Gamespy preview quote
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars/525111p1.html

Quote:

"(GuildWars is) more like StarCraft than a traditional MMO," explains ArenaNet Founder and Director, Jeff Strain. This is no surprise: ArenaNet's founding fathers defected from Blizzard to start the new company, with the goal of bringing its Battle.net experience to a new genre.

As a result Guild Wars might look like a traditional fantasy role-playing game, but it's got a unique feel. "It's more of a strategy game with persistence of characters," Strain says. "It's something that really hasn't been done with competitive RPGs."

Juhanah · Jun 09, 2005, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Uhh...

I'd point out that CTF isn't even an original concept.

But I'm sure ya'll already know that, right?

Right??

I played CTF almost every weeks in elementary school about 15 years ago

.. Too bad we didn't had skills and weapons

Tellani Artini · Jun 09, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

The fact that you can't jump or anything also subtracts the terrain feel.

To me, the fact that you can jump in WoW subtracts the immersion/believability feel. I really don't miss it in GW.

Every class should pay attention to terrain, it can help a lot. Mesmers, monks, and necros, since they can cast all of their spells through walls, should stay behind walls and obstructions to make it a hassle for warriors and rangers to target them. Warriors should bodyblock and elementalists should use ward against foes in choke points to stop or slow relic runners or approaching enemies. Relic runners and charging allies should avoid these choke points in the first place. Rangers should seek high ground, and when there's a ranger on the opposing team, everyone should seek high ground.

Inde · Jun 09, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Removed OT posts - if it does not relate to WoW's battleground, don't post. We know you like GW more - thats why you are on these forums.

cyberzomby · Jun 09, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

lol i was just making my point that world o warcraft has a lot in common with gw.
And it had to do with Battlegrounds
Ive seen wow and its nice and huge like someon posted here, but gw has a bit more balance i think.
But i would like to check out battlegrounds 2

Weezer_Blue · Jun 09, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Even though I'm thoroughly pissed off with Guild Wars right now, I still think it's a much better game than WoW. It's more balanced and all that. If it weren't for the skill and rune aquisitions, it would still be a great game. But, alas, It sucks right now.

Soda Popinski · Jun 09, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Well, maybe GW and WoW will cause each other to engage in an update "arms race" that will benefit both games.

Or maybe GW and WoW will engage in a Darwinian race where one game will capture the vast majority of online fans who are disposed to play either.

My hope is for the former.

OutcastHawk · Jun 09, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Xellos, that's probably my biggest complaint with PvP right now (through my all-too limited experience). There is just no way to construct a strategy that allows one or maybe two people to go off and be successful. You have to stick together. With the current system, the only way I could see it resolved is if many more people were on each time in some form of PvP, and that would increase lag problems that Anet has done such a great job in neutralizing. I really don't have any ideas how to fix this, without completing redoing the whole system, which of course isn't gonna happen, and shouldn't happen.

But still, WoW was far more unbalanced than GW is, if you went out on your own and got attacked by four people, you would likely still die, and there are still strategies that utilize terrain in GW (I don't see that in WoW any more than in GW)

squakMix · Jun 09, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Yea, one thing about GW that is a big problem with WOW is the character balances; Guildwars seems to be very "fair" in the regard.

Sadye X · Jun 09, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Unfortunately, as interresting as the large scale style pvp via battlegrounds sounds, it has more working against it than for it the way it's implemented. As was always the plan, they do indeed have a player cap on how many can be in the battleground at a time. With the general rp side of the game as easy as it is ( you can level up to around 40 or so without even putting much time or effort into things, and as mentioned you can literally have your entire spell book on active hotbars at all times ... kind of takes the *skill* out of the gaming experience ), alot if not most high level players are all wanting to step into the battlegrounds. With the cap though, you can easily spend a few hours *standing in line*.

Add to this the fact that server stability is a huge issue in WoW, and you end up with alot of frustrated players paying a monthly fee who *want* to play their game of choice, but either have log-in issues, server crashes every 20 minutes, or *do* have a stable server for an evening, but then get to wait a few hours to pvp anyway.